Let’s me just throw this out there because even though it’s completely irrelevant, some of you are deep down curious. I’m 25, a virgin and have never (I mean that legitimately) been in a relationship before, with a girl or guy. My first kiss by a guy was a few weeks ago, not realizing the intention was a hook-up. Never been kissed by a girl, but I’m gay, so I’m ok with that. I think one of the biggest issues I have, and perhaps other gay guys have is getting nowhere as far as a friendship/relationship.
I have wanted to be in a relationship for a while. Lots of guys have already been in a relationship at my age and nearly everyone has certainly lost their virginity. I am the 0.5%. I can’t explain how depressing it is to wake up everyday and have not made any progress on even establishing a friendship. So what’s the problem? Hell if I know, if I knew don’t you think I wouldn’t be writing this? I have some theories, and they are just my theories, nothing to back it up.
I believe guys are very judgmental on the way you look. Most of us have experienced it and most of us do it all the time on apps like Grindr, Jack’d, Hornet, Tinder, OkCupid, any dating app really. The first thing we look at is the photo of the guy. Hmm, is he hot? No. Pass. We don’t even give anyone a chance anymore. What is so wrong with trying to establish a connection with someone who we may not find relationship material? Is there a boundary when it comes to friendship? Do friends have to look attractive too? Why do we really care about looks? I think you could answer that yourself because you know why you do it. I’m guilty of it just as any of you guys out there, but I’ve started to connect with people who I would normally not connect with. I talk to guys who I’m not physically attracted to. Does that make me odd? No. There is nothing wrong with establishing a friendship, if that is truly what you are trying to accomplish. Some guys use “friends” as a non-threatening way to indicate sex or hook-ups. However when I say I am looking for friends, I really do mean that.
I’m different than some other guys out there. Sex is something that isn’t priority for me. I am wanting a relationship for the emotional connection. It’s not that I think sex isn’t important and counts as an intimate, emotional experience, it’s just I am not your stereotypical guy who craves it frequently. If I really wanted to, I could have lost my virginity a while ago. It’s not hard to do that now a days with sex and hook-up apps galore. And who can forget good ol’ Craigslist. I’m also not suggesting any of these sources are legit or safe, my point was I could “get some” if I really wanted to. For those of you who have already lost your virginity years before I will, good for you. It does suck to still be a virgin, and I try not to think about it.
What is it with sex in the gay culture? I get that men are horny and think about sex throughout the day, but should that be how we present ourselves on dating apps? For instance, the very common guy that has a shirtless picture as his profile. Do you know what I think of that? I think that the guy is sexually advertising himself when he shows photos like that. We all know what abs and a stomach looks like, why else would we post such photos? I don’t even consider responding back to anyone that messages me that has a shirtless photo in their profile.
Do you ever message back and forth to a guy and it only lasts 5 sentences or less between the both of you before you both just stop talking to each other? Of course you have. This is the other obstacle; trying to keep someones interest. I can’t even tell you how many times this has happened to me. It’s like all of a sudden these guys just decide they don’t want to continue to connect with you. What happened in 3 days that changed their mind? How did they go from all of a sudden they are interested in you and then they give you the cold shoulder? They haven’t even found out anything about you other than your response to “how are you?”. Why do we jump to conclusions and write people off so quickly? Are guys really that shallow. The answer is yes, some and debatably most guys most certainly are. I would love for these problems to change throughout the gay community, but in all reality, we have the right to be shallow, pretentious, picky, judgmental, etc. I don’t agree with that lifestyle, but there is nothing I can do than just be myself and hope that it influences other people to be more accepting. The cliche saying “It only takes one person…” is kind of true, but I am extremely outnumbered in this case.
Meeting up in person is one of the highlights of my so-called “dating” life. I love meeting people in person. To me, that is the only true way to connect with someone, on a face-to-face basis. Sure, we start out online talking to other guys, but if you don’t meet that person, to me that seems a little pointless. Why do I think meeting in person is so valuable? You see the person for who they are. All their imperfections that make them unique are visible. You can’t edit what you say, it’s all at that moment. You can’t interpret emotions through text. You might assume that anything with a “!” at the end means excitement or angry, or that a “;)” could mean something sexual or flirtatious, but do we REALLY know? Meet them in person, we are much better at reading peoples’ facial expressions than we are with messages online. People can edit what they say (tell you what you want to hear) and it may not even be the person you think you’re talking to! I also think meeting in person is crucial because isn’t that what most people think about when they think about the word “relationship”? For me, I think relationship means best friend, getting along, cuddling, doing activities together, caring, and just wanting to be with that person. How can you achieve any of that if it’s solely online? The reason I bring this up is because there are some guys out there that are skeptical to meet in person. It can be intimidating when you think about it. I don’t know about you other guys out there, but when I have a “date” for the first time, I stress to try to look my best because the first impression may be the deal breaker for some. I go out of my way to style my hair and wear clothes that express who I am. It’s an exciting and vulnerable time.
I see more and more older gay guys single. Why is that? I think we know what we want, but do we not know how to get it? There are many obstacles a gay guy has to go through to get what he wants. First, it’s not easy being gay. We have a much smaller pool of guys to choose from than “straight” people do. So that sucks, #1. In that small group of potential gay partners there is the age factor, so that’s even more limiting, #2. Most of us are attracted to a certain body type, so we limit ourselves further, #3. Distance is an issue for some guys, #4, and maintaining a connection with another guy, which at times seems impossible, #5. I’m sure I didn’t mention several other factors, but these are the big ones I can think of. I don’t know how it is with “straight” people trying to find potential partners, but it may be very similar. The point is, we want to get somewhere with another guy, but how do we get somewhere if we’re getting nowhere? What needs to change?
Sometimes you have to be careful what you say on dates. I suppose there is a proper etiquette for some people, but there isn’t any rules that say we can’t say certain things on our first date. Topics I’ve found that scare guys away is mentioning you are wanting to be in a relationship. Not with them, that is just your want/need. That turns some guys off. I don’t know why, but it does. I personally don’t mention any heavy topics like kids, marriage, or personal information. My first dates may be different from yours, but I usually meet a guy at a coffee place or restaurant and talk to them in a public setting. I sometimes go walking with them too. Something simple, but a way for me to get to know them. I don’t like the idea of going over to their house, or vice versa, on the first date. I don’t even feel comfortable on the second date to go over to their house. For me, I need to get to know them more.
There are certain things that are total buzzkill dates and that lead to getting nowhere with that person, such as not finding something to talk about when you are with them. I’ve experienced this and it’s painful. It was on my part too. I like this guy, but during the 4th date, I just couldn’t figure out what to say or have open ended questions to ask him. It was awkward and kind of heartbreaking at the same time. This was just yesterday too. That is why I am writing this because it was that awkwardness that is likely he won’t want to continue to connect with me. Another date buzzkill that I’ve found is being clingy. I was at fault for this on some dates, other times it was the other guy. I don’t think clingy is necessarily a bad thing, but I think the reason it turns guys off is because it’s a strong emotion and they feel your need or want coming on too strong. I do my best to not come off as clingy because it’s just unattractive when you first meet someone. Perhaps not when a relationship develops, but it is a turnoff for most guys in the beginning stages. The reason I, or likely any other guy, come off as clingy is because my underlining goal is to establish a relationship. That in itself used to cause me to act more flirtatious, maintaining more eye contact with the person and of course, insisting that we hang out again. That did not work well in my favor, so I’ve changed the way I interact with guys.
Guys are very hard to read in my opinion. I can pick up on a girls emotions and problems much easier than I can with guys. I’d say most guys don’t show emotion because they probably think it is a sign of weakness, but it’s not. I discovered this through Brene Brown, who is shame and vulnerability social worker/therapist who has had very popular TED talks and audio CD’s. I’m not here advertising for her. Her teaching and findings have helped me a bit as a person. I haven’t met many guys that are ok crying in front of another guy. They hold back emotions. I’m actually a 180 on this. I’m a very sensitive person. I sometimes don’t react on the spot, but I’m also not afraid to tell you how I am feeling at any point in time. I think that is pretty essential for a relationship to work out. Be open about your emotions and feelings and COMMUNICATE! Wow, my first bold word on my blog!
Everything that I’ve said so far is from my experience and perception. You may have completely opposite viewpoints from me or maybe I described some things that have happened in my life that happened in your life to a T. The point of this blog is not to be a guide to better living. I’m telling you my problems, my concerns, and my thoughts about the challenges of being gay and finding a guy. I would ultimately love to hear from anyone else to see if I’m not alone. To see what worked for you. To give opposing view points. To communicate.
Naturalist Kamera | 
4 responses to “The current issue: getting nowhere”
Thank you for putting yourself out there, sharing your experiences and starting this conversation.
First off let me assure you that you are definitely not alone. Reading your words on my screen felt so familiar to me it’s as if I’m reading something that *I* myself wrote years earlier and just forgot I had written. I could probably leave a comment as long as your blog entry, but I’ll try to keep it under control 🙂
Although I am no where near as cynical as what I’m about to say would make me appear to be…
I agree – gay men are horrible people. Apparently it’s not limited to gay men however as my sister’s experience would seem to indicate that it’s just all men in general 🙂
Obviously this is a horrible generalization that doesn’t apply to every man out there, but it seems to me that the ones most easily found (because they are on Grindr, Jack’d and the other apps/sites you mentioned) seem to fall into this category. Apps that reinforce the ability to “move on” to the next guy with the slightest flick of the finger discourage all of us from attempting to make a real, meaningful connection.
A month ago I was talking to a guy I had met online using one of these sites. We were getting along great. He texted me good morning every day, we talked on the phone at night, and kept in touch with getting-to-know-you type questions and funny thoughts throughout the day. One night we were texting and my sister and one of my roommates came to my room. I left him a message saying I was going to be responding slowly (if at all) because I had unexpected guests. Apparently those 30 minutes I spent unable to talk to him were enough for him to loose interest, find someone else to talk to and move on. Now he barely texts back and I’ve given up the idea of us ever meeting.
Was it really so bad that I had other people in my life that took my attention for a few minutes? No, of course not. But we live in a society that breeds impatience and has the expectation of instant gratification. To make matters worse, our digital lives that are supposed to make us be more interconnected has actual fostered the opposite – an extreme feeling of disconnection.
I used to call my friend Jourdan on the phone from time to time to catch up on her life. Find out how she’s doing, what’s going on with her kids, and “what’s new”. Now thanks to Facebook I see photos of her kids and the things she’s doing and I *feel* as if I’m already caught up, so there is no longer a need to call and say hi. People whom I used to speak with rarely (but regularly) I now never speak to at all thanks to being so “interconnected” with them.
The result? Disconnection. So much so we cannot even be alone with ourselves for any sustained length of time. We must fill every moment with with something to distract us, to take our attention off of our boredom and feeling of isolation that it’s no wonder that during those 30 minutes he had to find someone else to move on to in order to fill that void.
This disconnection also explains the shirtless pics and the extreme magnification of our sexuality. Living in this society we (as gay men in general) have forgotten how to establish actual relationships anymore. When we do attempt to do so, we get beaten down, hurt, betrayed and vow to never let ourselves be that vulnerable again. So we build a wall around us and we feel more isolated. Feeling more isolated leads to loneliness, and loneliness leads to the desire to stop feeling lonely if even for a little while. But again, if we put ourselves out there with genuine emotion we could get hurt… so it’s safer if we invite a guy over for a “movie” then we can “feel” less lonely for at least one night.
The problem is the emotions that come with meaningless sex is just that – meaningless. They are empty emotions.
Like a drug, where a hookup once a month would make someone feel less lonely and get them through the next month, now that “fix” wears off sooner. Now they crave connection every other week, then every week, then multiple times a week. The problem is they quickly run out of people. They don’t really want to repeat with the same people too often because then they might get attached and getting attached leads to hurt and pain.
So then the question becomes how do you get more and more people interested in them? Go to the gym of course. Get a better body. Go straight for the people who have already given up on love and have decided that sex is all that matters to them.
Of course this isn’t how things should be.
I really hope I’m wrong about a lot of that analysis… but it’s what I see in the people around me. Sure, there are some people who are just slutty. They claim to have no emotional void they are filling… it’s just physical… and I’m certain for some people that’s true. But secretly I believe that many more guys are trying to fill an emotional hole… not necessarily their physical ones.
I feel like I’m rambling at this point… There’s a lot more I could respond to but I started off with saying I was going to try to avoid going on forever and here I am breaking that promise 🙂 Here’s what I will say though:
The good news is that not all of us are like this. Some of us have *also* listened to Brene Brown and have fully embraced the necessity of vulnerability (even if doing so in is a day-to-day challenge). Personally I have realized that Grindr, Jack’d and all of these tools to make us feel more connected just result in a deeper feeling of disconnection. My personal experience is that all they do is serve to remind us of the sheer number of guys that are near by, yet here we sitting in our rooms, staring at our phones, still all alone.
So then I guess the question becomes how do we solve that?
We make meaningful relationships wherever we can find them. Friends of friends, people in line at the grocery story, meetups, it doesn’t matter. All that matters is that it occurs in the real world – not the virtual world. We may not find our life partner that way (being that society at large still is comprised of both men and women, only a fraction of whom are gay), but we can make valuable connections… and who knows maybe one of these days one of those “connections” might be the person that introduces you to the love of your life 🙂
-JS
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Hey Justin, thanks for taking the time to comment. I’m always intrigued to hear other guys’ stories.
It’s interesting how at the beginning of your comment how you felt like reading my blog was almost as if it was something that you wrote and forgotten about. While I was reading your comment, I was thinking the same thing. It seems as though we’ve both hit some key point in regards to connection in the gay community. Though I may not have mentioned it or phrased it like you, everything you mentioned makes sense.
Perhaps subconsciously the introverted loners understand that these online “social” outlets are not really as social as they claim to be. When you can edit exactly what you say and be “safe” (not vulnerable) behind that computer or cell phone screen, it’s false reinforcement that internet socializing is equally as fulfilling as a face to face conversation. I couldn’t say why most all of us continue to do it. Maybe because calling friends is outdated, for a couple of reasons, one of which you mentioned. If calling or meeting in person is not comfortable anymore, then online socializing is what we turn to. I see it when I even go on dates. I called a guy out for constantly texting on his phone while we were hanging out. We were walking across a bridge and he was slowing down to text for what seemed like 5 minutes. I’m not going to slow my pace down and walk besides someone who isn’t even wanting to connect with me, so I kept at my own pace, pretending that he was beside me (we really weren’t that far apart when he was done texting). He asked if we were even hanging out, for which I replied “You tell me. I’m here because I wanted to hang out with you and you’re texting away.” Long story short, he just viewed that as acceptable manners. Maybe for some people it is, but I hardly ever bring my phone out when I am talking to someone in person. That text message will be there until I delete it, and there is reason for voicemail. It just seems so overwhelming with the number of disconnected people out there and nothing is really being done about it. With new technologies and more “promises”, it seems like we’re past the point of no return. There are people out there that still connect the old fashioned way (in person or by calling), but in my case, that is mostly family and my best friends.
That was my random rant for the day. I could go on about topics and issues I have with connection now days, but you already know the issues, in fact I’m sure most of us subconsciously do. Just need to change our habits.
Thanks for the glimmer of hope.
-KP
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I’m happy to help bring you a glimmer of hope 🙂
I too have had a similar experience with texting while dating. I was hanging out with a guy all day long on a second date. In the mid point of the day he wanted to check in on some things that were happening at home. He had recently moved back home and something was going on with his father but he didn’t want to cancel our date. At the time he didn’t have a phone for some reason but he had his iPod on him so we went to a Starbucks to get access to their free Wi-Fi so he could text and check in with everyone at home.
I didn’t think much of it at the time. We had already spent hours together so it was totally understandable that he’d want to check in with what was happening at home. I sat next to him on a separate chair and made the best of it. I texted him while he was texting his family to ask him what he was up to for his Saturday. Obviously I knew since I was with him, but I was trying to be cute so I could talk about our date in the third person as if I was gossiping with a friend. To that end I shared with him that I was on this date with this really cute guy and I was having a really fun time. I know… corny… but what can I say I’m corny from time to time. 🙂
Ultimately the dated ended abruptly after that because his family had been trying to get a hold of him and we decided to call it a day. I was naturally a little sad the day was ending early, but it was totally understandable. Fast forward to later the following we met one night for dinner for our third date. Immediately after dinner he wanted to go across the parking lot to a Starbucks to get Wi-Fi for his iPod. He then proceeded to spend the next hour totally ignoring me while he texted other people from his iPod. I can only imagine how much worse it would have been if he had a phone that would have worked anywhere! That ended up being our last date.
I don’t know when ignoring the people you’re sharing a moment of life with in the here-and-now to speak to someone else (who should also be paying attention to the people that *they* are currently sharing a moment of life with in the here-and-now btw) became not only socially acceptable but was expected behavior. I was at a birthday dinner where everyone but me and a handful of people I personally knew where just sitting around the table on their phones, in silence, not talking to each other…
What was the point in getting together for dinner?!?
The birthday boy would have probably gotten to spend more quality time with his friends if everyone had just stayed home and they conducted the “birthday party” on Google Hangouts. At least then when they were staring at their phones they’d actually be staring at each other via video chat and they would have actually interacted with each other.
Personally, I’m always on call for work. I *should* be reachable 24/7, but even knowing that when I’m on a date with someone my phone goes on airplane mode. I deserve some personal time from time to time and the world won’t come to an end because I wasn’t able to be reached for 3 hours. The person I’m with deserves the respect and the knowledge that they are important enough to be the only person I’m currently sharing that moment in time with. This is common sense to me – however common sense seems to no longer be common practice.
— JS
PS: I have lots of thoughts to share on the “do’s and don’t’s” for conversational topics on a first date that you mentioned in the original post as well… but I have to wake up early tomorrow and I have a feeling that would writing that now would leave me awake for a very, very long time. For another day perhaps 🙂
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I came across your blog when I read your profile on OKCupid. I left you a brief message there.
Thanks for writing your blog! While reading your first entry, I was so struck by how much your thoughts and experiences mirror mine. It was as if you were reading my mind. Seriously! And I find your observations and conclusions are spot-on. I look forward to reading your other blog entries.
Regarding guys that correspond and suddenly stop. That has happened to me many hundreds of times. I’ve had guys who corresponded with me 150 times, suddenly stop communicating and not explain why. Each time, it usually leaves me questioning myself: what did I do wrong, what did I say that offended them. I will go back through every message and note, reading and re-reading, looking for clues and not find anything. For someone like me, who longs for a few close friendships, those experiences leave me feeling deeply discouraged.
Why are so many older gay guys single? #1… To add to your section regarding being judgmental… as a guy in his late 50s, who came to terms with being gay in his late 30s, I find that I’m constantly judged solely on my age. Guys see the *number*, and run! It doesn’t matter how good my profile is, or how much we have in common: *reject*. Even when I express my interest in only developing a friendship: *reject*. I’ve reached out to guys who were older than me. I got rejected by them. Why? I was too old. It’s painful to feel like an outcast among your own small “community”.
Why so many older gay guys are single? #2… I’ve had guys younger than me tell me: “why don’t you hang out with guys your own age.” What I usually tell them is: you might not realize, but when AIDS first hit around 1980, it literally wiped out part of a generation of guys who are now in their 50s–70s. I’ve read that perhaps as many as 50% of gays in that age group have died of AIDS. So the guys who are still around find themselves with very few eligible guys left to reach out to. That makes guys like them (and me) feel much like an orphan. I have found that when a guy hits 50 and is single, he will likely be single for the rest of his life. For guys like me who long to have a life-partner, that realization is a crushing blow.
–Dave
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